Before the Hamas attack, tens of thousands of Israelis protested against the ultra -right government of Netanyahus and its so -called judicial reform. Do you play on it?
Yes. At the head of the Israeli government we have Netanyahu, a man who wants to save himself from prison. He desperately holds onto power and picked up people to his cabinet, who were previously called terrorists. So the destruction of democracy in Israel is underway. The argument that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East is no longer convincing.
In your book you write that a picture of Moshe Dayan was once hung in your room. How did the Israeli Defense Minister of the Six Day War in 1967 find his way to you?
Moshe Dajan was relatively popular in India, he symbolized military efficiency and unity. I used to see Israel how his governments wanted to make it look since the 1960s: as a salvation after the Holocaust for his victim and the guarantee that something like this can never be repeated. Like me, many other people were in the global south. Israel’s foundation was initially perceived with benevolence because the European Jews had earned a safe place. However, sympathy has disappeared that this place was created by violence and displacement of the Palestinians.
However, this was also a consequence of the war that Arab states began against Israel in 1948. In these and other Muslim countries, Jews were also sold masses.
Jewish Israelis experienced the birth of their nation state in 1948 as a question of life and death. There is true. Likewise, the displacement of Jews from Arab countries was an injustice.
The conflict between Israel and the Palestinians has been in place since 1948. How does this permanent state of stress affect?
The situation is terrible. We are dealing with a society in Israel that is constantly told that she has to destroy her enemies before they destroy Israel. Every sign of resistance on the part of the Palestinians is perceived as unbearable.
Hamas, Hisbollah and their protective power Iran also want to tell Israel from the Tilgen map, the people in Gaza, in Lebanon and in Iran, little else is told.
At this point we have to talk about what was there first. So let’s talk about 2018 when Hamas tried with non -violent demonstrations at the border crossings between Gaza and Israel. People demanded the right to return. What was the episode? In the end, more than 200 Palestinians were dead. My book begins with the uprising of the Jews, who were caught by the Germans in the Warsaw Ghetto in 1943. In history there are always examples of people who rebel in complete hopelessness against their oppressors. It was the reaction of people who knew that they should be killed anyway without thinking about the consequences, they rose.
The comparison between the uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto in 1943 against the SS and the terrorist attack of Hamas in 2023 Israeli civilians is dared. In addition, the demonstrations mentioned caused violent actions by part of the participants.
They were initially non -violent. That touched many people, but then had no effect. Hamas has certainly included this knowledge in its plans for October 7, 2023. Of course, they have calculated dead Israeli civilians, and they certainly assumed Israeli retaliation, which in turn would cost Palestinian civilians to live. But they underestimated two things: once the extent of the surprise of the Israelis on October 7, 2023 and the extent of the counter -stroke. Hamas has not guessed how radically Benjamin Netanyahu and his government are really. Such misjudgments have always been part of this kind of outbreaks of militants and anti -colonial movements. What happened on October 7, 2023 was historically not unprecedented. We approach these questions with a historical innocence that is both naive and quite shocking.
What do the states of the global south see the conflict?
For most people outside of the white western countries, the Palestine question is a question of postponed decolonization. When you look at the Middle East, you will see with Israel a deputy state of the western interests that have occupied and stolen the land of Palestinians who lived there and continues to fill and continue to steal and steal. They are also not hidden that Israel’s government is working closer to white racists and right -wing extremist politicians in Europe and America.
They also include Trump. How do you rate him as president?
It is a man who obviously has a high degree of self -confidence in his skills, great confidence in his power to do all sorts of things. For example, to be able to bring Russia and Ukraine “peace”. Trump wants to interfere, he is not one who takes care of nicer. Trump is also a man who now wants to divide parts of the world with Russia, as European powers have previously divided parts of the world among themselves. Trump is the perfect embodiment of this imperialist mentality, which is not even interested in putting a lip service to democracy and human rights or talking about common values or the like.
What does Trump mean for the USA?
Trump represents America almost perfectly in his decline. Whether it is about Ukraine or the Gaza Strip, there is no reason for the United States to do as if it were about something other than your own bare interests. We will come to very hard times.
Now Trump has threatened Hamas with the most severe consequences if she does not hand over the remaining hostages. What do you expect?
I expect the worst. The lesson of our time, on the other hand, consists in the fact that the consequences for this – such as the destruction of the Gaza Strip – must eventually carry the consequences for this. It is better not to destroy the rules of the norms of morality and law. The price of moral waiver is simply too high. We need these fragile structures that protect civilization, we have to keep them if we do not want to slip into barbarism.
Mr. Mishra, thank you very much for the conversation.
